“I’m pretty sure you didn’t answer my question about whether you evolved or it was the American public that changed.”
Olivier Douliery/Abaca Press / MCT
WASHINGTON — Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton got into a testy exchange with NPR's Terry Gross on Thursday, as Gross tried to get Clinton to explain her views on marriage equality over time.
When Gross attempted to get the former secretary of state to explain whether she had changed her mind over time on the issue of marriage equality or whether she supported marriage equality previously but felt that she couldn't say so due to the popular and political opposition.
Listen to the exchange:
NPR's TERRY GROSS: "So what's it like when you're in office and you have to do all these political calculations to not be able to support something like gay marriage, that you actually believe in. Obviously you feel very committed to human rights and you obviously put gay rights as part of human rights but in doing the calculus you decided you couldn't support it. Correct me if I'm reading it wrong."
HILLARY CLINTON: "I think you're reading it very wrong. I think that, as I said – just as the President has said – just because you're a politician doesn't mean you're not a thinking human being. You gather information, you think through positions, you're not one hundred percent set, thank goodness, you're constantly re-evaluating where you stand. That is true for me. We talked earlier about Iraq, for goodness sakes. So for me, marriage has always been a matter left to the states and in many of the conversations I and my colleagues and supporters had, I fully endorse the efforts by activists to work state-by-state. In fact, that is what is working and I think that being in the position that I was in the Senate, fighting employment discrimination which we still have some ways to go, was appropriate at that time. As Secretary of State, I was out of domestic politics and I was certainly doing all I could on the international scene to raise the importance of the human rights of the LGBT community. And then leaving that position, I was able to very quickly announce that I was fully in support of gay marriage and that it is now continuing to proceed state-by-state. I am very hopeful that we will make progress and see even more change and acceptance. One of my big problems right now is that too many people believe they have a direct line to the divine and they never want to change their mind about anything.They're never open about new information and they like to operate in an evidence-free zone. I think it's good if people continue to change."